The Untamable Nature of Photography
Pedro Guimarães is a Lisbon-based photographer, an editor, and publisher at XYZ Books and printer at XYZ Print. Pedro founded XYZ Book with his friend Tiago Casanova, an artist, photographer, and editor. The urge to develop himself in the printing industry originated during his studies towards the MA in Photography at the University of Westminster, London. This experience to present
a self-published newsprint edition, as Pedro shares, “was such a success — with online sales on my website and some promotion on social media, I managed to sell almost 500 copies in a matter of weeks.” Recently, Pedro released his book Rato Tesoura Pistola — a pure collaboration with his two kids Nuno and Emma-Sofie, designed by Dayana Lucas.
In this interview, we approached Pedro to discuss Rato Tesoura Pistola, released this year. Pedro speaks in-depth about occurrences, which led to the creation of the book, time spent with his 7 and 5-year-old kids, and the valuable learnings from this experience. “What we have learned is that there should be no distinction between work and play. I try to extend this idea to the rest of my life, even when I am not with my children,” Pedro describes. We close with a conversation about ‘the untamable nature of photography,’ this very feeling that motivates to continue and create. Pedro’s work offers a shift in the angle, viewing the same narrative from a different perspective, bringing the whole new world of events unfolding before our eyes.
‘Moving to London allowed me to be surrounded all the time by highly enthusiastic people, extremely eager to show their work and immense talent to the world.’
The Beginning
You studied MA in Photography at the University of Westminster in London. What are the major points of difference between the circle of photographers in London compared to Lisbon?
Moving to London allowed me to be surrounded all the time by highly enthusiastic people, extremely eager to show their work and immense talent to the world. This was practically non-existent when I lived in Portugal, which also was a totally different place a decade ago. Everyone I knew was either an introvert or an outcast. I was not exactly an extrovert myself… I would hardly address more than two people at once, three were already a multitude. Being exposed to reality with such different social dynamics was a bit scary in the beginning. I think David Bate, my course leader, saw this fear in me, so he encouraged me to talk about my work to the entire classroom.
What was the most influential theme you discovered during your studies which you apply in your work today?
The most important lesson I’ve learned during my stay in London was that people who buy photobooks are much more interested in the work of art itself than in the artist who created it. Strangely, I only came to this realisation towards the very end of my stay in London. It was the same day of my graduation show at Ambika P3 Gallery in London, on a warm summer evening, when along with a few exhibition prints that were shown, I also decided to make a public launching of a self-published newsprint edition, entitled Bluetown, which features the homonymous photographic series that were part of my final thesis. It was such a success — with online sales on my website and some promotion on social media, I managed to sell almost 500 copies in a matter of weeks.
Being this unknown guy coming from nowhere, with no work published, apart from some commercial assignments for magazines and newspapers, it really felt great to find out I could persuade a few hundred people from all around the world to pay £15 in exchange for a publication. It was an amazing sensation of accomplishment, and this quite obviously led the path to what soon would become XYZ Books. This is not a 'theme,' but rather an important discovery. One that has obviously changed my life forever. Thinking about photography now is the same as thinking about books. Books are where I really feel comfortable nowadays.
‘So, the initial idea was that, instead of focusing on the trauma we were experiencing, we would focus on exploring the artistic side of playing.’
Rato, Tesoura, Pistola
The project, Mouse, Scissors, Gun, is a unique approach to incorporate contemporary photography with artwork created by your kids, including photographs of them and allowing the viewer to get more familiar with their personalities. How do you think your childhood differs from that which Nuno and Emma-Sofie experience today?
The way you present your question leaves me no way to avoid some previous explanation, and for this reason, I must reveal an important bit of information that is not available in the book itself. Even though it probably tells a kind of an idyllic story between a father and his two children, the reality is far from being idyllic. Not long after becoming a father for the second time, a tragic event took place in our family's life. For reasons that don’t really matter here, my former partner and mother to my children decided to leave Portugal and travel back to her hometown in Denmark, taking our children with her.
Nuno and Emma-Sofie, the co-authors of my book, were way too young at the time to be able to deal with the situation. So, after a period of almost one year not having any contact with them, I was basically forced to go to court in Denmark and fight for my kids' right to spend time with their father. This was obviously a very long and extremely painful process that no one was really prepared for... but it was the only way I could have access to my children and spend time with them… and it was during these few moments of togetherness, forcefully determined by the court, that we created this body of work. Sometimes a weekend break, sometimes a few weeks during summer holidays. So, the initial idea was that, instead of focusing on the trauma we were experiencing, we would focus on exploring the artistic side of playing.
The plot was quite simple; we just had to play from the moment we woke up to the moment we went to bed. I'd take pictures, and the children would basically decide what to do. Of course, I was in charge of the location and setting. We spent basically most of our time living in a campervan by the beach, which used to belong to my parents. I am very lucky to be able to do this simply because I’m self-employed, and I am in control of my own schedule, otherwise, I think it would be impossible. But still, we kept reminding ourselves that we should use the word ‘work’ instead of ‘playing.’ Playing was supposed to mean some kind of intermittent full-time job in our case. You know, it is such a powerful tool… what we have learned is that there should be no distinction between work and play. I try to extend this idea to the rest of my life, even when I am not with my children.
‘Like most kids from my generation, I was lucky to find everything I needed in the streets. It was a different world back the’
How do you think your childhood differs from that which Nuno and Emma-Sofie experience today?
Like most kids from my generation, I was lucky to find everything I needed in the streets. It was a different world back then; childhood had a very different meaning four decades ago... There was always this unsupervised freedom, plenty of room for mischief, and also for wonderful adventures. We were so invisible to adults' eyes! I remember going to the supermarket to steal chocolate bars with a lit cigarette in my mouth at the age of 12. Maybe this was a Southern Europe kind of thing that doesn’t exist anymore. I don’t know… It was lovely. Besides, adults were basically so desperate to make ends meet at the end of each month they wouldn’t even see us, kids! Looking back, I feel I’ve been mostly on my own during my entire childhood.
My children are growing up in a much more different context, of course. They have access to more material goods, but they lack the crazy freedom I used to enjoy as a kid. Plus, they have more responsibilities, like making sure their crazy parents manage to get along! But despite all the obstacles, we still manage to have a life in common, something I didn’t have with my parents, even though we all lived under the same roof... I think, despite the huge geographical distance between Portugal and Denmark, our lives are not so separate in the sense that childhood and adulthood are not two different universes anymore. We try to be part of each other's lives as much as possible. And that's a good thing, I think.
What was the choice of paper and designs for the book influenced by?
Design-wise, I must give all the credits to the amazing Dayana Lucas, one of the most exciting artists and designers that I know. Dayana was born in Venezuela, but she has lived in Portugal most of her adult life. Dayana has this unique approach to design and her practice that probably has to do with her South American background and influences. Her attitude is always raw, genuine, and loaded with positive energy. The first time I gave Dayana a huge pile of photographs and reproductions of drawings that originated this book, she managed to solve the editorial puzzle almost instantly in front of my eyes. A few more hours were needed to choose the right materials. You have to ask Dayana how she did it. It's her talent.
‘Not having enough funds to set up a proper publishing project from scratch, the only viable route for us was to follow the 'do everything yourself' approach, which led me to do some deep research on all the required skills involved in publishing a beautiful book.’
XYZ Books
You’ve been developing your skills as an editor, publisher, and printer and learned to work with a photograph on all the stages of its production. How did this experience change your approach to the conception of a photograph and your technique, as most probably, you’re preparing for the next stages the image will pass when pressing the shutter button?
I’m not sure these skills changed how I approach the initial creative stage of producing a photograph, or at least I cannot formulate a clear answer. ‘Pressing the shutter button,’ as you put it, still feels to me like an act with unpredictable consequences… And I’m glad about that. The moment I feel I’m in total control, I’ll quit photography altogether and dedicate myself to something else.
One thing is true, however, improving my skills throughout the entire workflow, which is a huge feat, can result in unwanted side effects in terms of artistic creativity… and that is a possible explanation behind the fact that I tend to photograph less than I used to. Perhaps, I just get too scared about all the long hours of work involved in giving life to a photograph. And also the fact that I’ve been overloaded way too many times dealing with other people’s work, making it ready to be published or exhibited. All these skills only make sense if I’m open to working for others too, and working for others can slow down the development of your personal work…
When I decided to create XYZ Books, together with my colleague Tiago Casanova, I knew that this would be the case one day… It's just like having children. Some parts of you will have to be kept on hold, waiting for better days. Also, not having enough funds to set up a proper publishing project from scratch, the only viable route for us was to follow the 'do everything yourself' approach, which led me to do some deep research on all the required skills involved in publishing a beautiful book. This took me years of investigation, but I did it with pleasure, interest, and devotion, which served XYZ Books’ goals quite well. However, should the conditions allow in the near future, I would be glad to give room to someone else and focus on more strategic tasks, such as talking to artists, creating bridges between artists and designers, and so on. And, of course, focus on my practice a bit more.
‘Add one photograph next to another, and you have a multi-layered narrative. If you also add text to that visual narrative, be it a poem or a simple caption, then you reach whole new levels of complexity.’
The Drive
From discovering photography at an early age to later switching the course of your studies to pursue photography — what is your main passion in photography, or what drives you to continue working?
I tend to see photography as a language that everyone seems to be proficient in, but no one is really in control of. The objectivity of photographs is highly dependent on the particular context in which they are produced, or cultural background, and the messages that their creators try to convey. Messages are often received by the viewers as fuzzy and somehow elusive, despite the amount of trust that has been created between all the participants.
Add one photograph next to another, and you have a multi-layered narrative. If you also add text to that visual narrative, be it a poem or a simple caption, then you reach whole new levels of complexity. For me, this is the real power of photographs: their untamable nature. Is there anything more motivating than spending a lifetime trying to tame the untamable? I don’t think so. So in a way, my desire is to have a deeper understanding of the mechanisms of photography, and it led me to pursue studies in the field. Photography is all about desire, and desire itself is what keeps me motivated and focused.
Upcoming Projects
What’s the next thing we’ll see from you? What is the stage this project is in today?
Lately, I’ve been nurturing this idea about working around the concept of 'house.' Not just the physical tridimensional mass and its interaction with light, as in architectural photography, but also the spiritual and emotional dimensions. The inspiration comes from a friend of mine that started building a house more than 20 years ago. He has been building it essentially with his bare hands. Two decades now and his house is still not finished… It's like a living creature. We spend a lot of time together, even though I don’t help much, I keep shooting pictures. There’s been some interesting stuff slowly emerging from my surveillance. Maybe it can result in something usable in the near future. Still, I need some more time to be sure.
