I Love When Appearance Is Deceiving
What comprises personality, human qualities, and individual characteristics? How does the easily perceived physical appearance add to what lies underneath? Estelle Hanania is preoccupied with the subject of changes one can impose on their identity or a perceived identity through physical appearance. Masks, costumes, theatrical impersonation, and ventriloquism (as means of physical transformation) appear throughout Estelle's work.
Especially in the research, a collaboration with choreographer Gisèle Vienne, focusing on backstage photography of actors and their interaction with marionettes. In fashion photography, Estelle proposes to view identity through art makeup (as covering the face in a specific color), designed clothes, performance, and representation of a wide range of individuals.
Estelle Hanania is a French photographer, her recently published book is ‘IT’S ALIVE! A travers l’œuvre de Gisèle Vienne.’ In 2020 Estelle had a solo exhibition: ‘Estelle Hanania’ at Saint-Briac-sur-Mer, France and in September she will present 'It's Alive!' at Mep, Paris. In this interview, we open the curtain to It’s Alive series, a 10-year ongoing collaboration with Gisèle Vienne. Estelle speaks about her main interest in photography, which deals with an attempt to show prejudices through contrasts and appearances, at times deceiving. We touch on topics as living in Paris, studying Graphic Design and graduating from the Fine Arts School in Paris, and fashion photography through the story of Dilone and her family.
‘It became too much for me. Actually, the city started to push me to a race, I didn’t want to run. I needed a more quiet place to pause myself from the city craziness.’
Paris
Living in Paris, being a Parisian - what does it mean for you?
Being a Parisian is too broad to be restricted to one description. A Parisian is rarely originally from Paris; they can be from any city in France or coming from another country. It’s a cosmopolitan city where each Parisian adds their personality to the main definition.
I never felt a Parisian, though. I was born in Paris, but I spent all my childhood and teenagehood in the eastern suburbs of Paris, in a very different vibe. Living there pushed me to relocate to the capital right after I graduated from the high school. It was a dream destination.
How would you describe Paris?
Paris at the time seemed very exciting, open-minded, full of opportunities, and cool people. I really enjoyed the number of possibilities: if you want you can watch any movies, visit excellent bookshops, attend exciting exhibitions, eat well, but it became too much for me. Actually, the city started to push me to a race, I didn’t want to run. I needed a more quiet place to pause myself from the city craziness. Knowing Paris exists is good enough for me, I don’t have to experience it 24 hours a day. I select what I want to do there, and I visit when I want. I have lived in Versailles for the past four years, and I enjoy Paris more since then.
‘I’m all about contrasts, that’s what I’m looking for in a subject, this idea of apparent contradiction is appealing to me, I love when the subject isn’t what they look like.’
Themes and Research
Each artist attempts to find a unique voice through a matter of concern they study. Your works present a striking contrast between the utmost human and the theatrical manifestation of the character. What lies in between the lines, those two genres, in your opinion?
I’ve always come to subjects very organically without overthinking too much in advance. I felt I would discover later on what really drives me. And it was true. I trust my instinct when it comes to what I want to photograph. I’m very visual whether it’s a person, a place, objects, groups of people. I must feel an attraction even if the feeling is blurry, I must have the urge to take pictures. And yes, I’m all about contrasts, that’s what I’m looking for in a subject, this idea of apparent contradiction is appealing to me, I love when the subject isn’t what they look like.
What are some of the understandings you reached from this continuous research?
I photographed Seth, a young American from Kansas, who looked like a shy teenager, an introvert, when I met him, but I soon realized he was a real showman, through his ventriloque skills becoming almost someone else when he performs his art.
Or I’m thinking of Cassandro, The Exotico, a famous gay Lucha libre wrestler (Marie Losier made a documentary about him two years ago), I got to photograph him in El Paso. I love to witness this man evolving in a very macho world, becoming a real glamorous performer on stage, wrestling in a very professional way while dressed in glittery and colorful suits, with makeup on, and a best hairdo.
Actually, I love when appearance is deceiving, so you can start to reconsider your own prejudice and beliefs about how you perceive things. I think it gives hope to see how humans can believe in themselves and follow their own direction even though it’s not the established path.
‘I realized a very fragile aspect of being in fine arts, you have tutors, but nothing really prepares you for the 'outside' and the 'after.'’
The School of Fine Arts
When did you realize which path you are going to choose? I’m referring to the way studies (the graduation from Ecole Nationale Supérieure des Beaux-Arts de Paris) affected your perception of art and the decision to participate in festivals and exhibitions, which demands a defined approach to photography.
Before entering the Fine Arts School in Paris, I studied Graphic Design at Estienne, a school of applied arts. Applying to the Fine Arts School for me was a way to free myself from the commercial aspect I learned in the Applied Arts School. I was both mesmerized by the enormous spaces and technical labs you could get in in the school of the Fine Arts. The location is a historical place in the heart of Paris.
I felt like I was living extraordinary years there, but at the same time, I realized a very fragile aspect of being in fine arts, you have tutors, but nothing really prepares you for the 'outside' and the 'after.' So, I worked in an advertising agency as an Art Director during my studies to earn enough money to produce large format prints, which I developed in the school's color lab. It was a good experience as I could learn how a photographer can also live from his photographs commercially and keep an artistic practice. Honestly, photography, at the time, wasn’t the noblest practice at school, and I was a bit shy to pretend I would go and apply to art residencies, exhibitions, etc.
I had a good start, though, as I was the winner of a photography prize, Hyères, right after I graduated in 2007. It gave me the confidence I had something to say in photography and to keep on doing it in a very instinctive way. Also, I didn’t want to focus just on one aspect of photo practice, I also loved fashion, so I kept on searching in that direction as well.
‘I feel like taking pictures is as much giving as taking. So it should be fair for the people photographed. I always try to find a good balance and a destination for pictures, which could be of interest to the subject.’
The Human
Masks and costumes, identity and personality, fashion and styling - you focus on a variety of visual representations, each changing the human, adding new components to their being. What fascinates you in masks - this shift from the ancient traditions forward to today's presentation?
Even though you could think masks, makeup, costumes are hiding one’s personality, in my opinion, it’s the opposite. I think it's revealing something deep inside of you. I’m also touched by the way some people have the courage to invent themselves according to what they want, and not what they were given when they were born.
Do you tend to get to know people you photograph on a more personal level?
Of course, on my side, I need to develop a certain relationship with people I photograph. I’m not specifically looking for a friendship or anything of the kind, but sometimes it happens. I’m thinking of a drag queen from Yogyakarta, Suzzaravina, we keep close and warm contact even though we’re very far. I also have a way to photograph some of my subjects in the long run. For many years, I’ve photographed Seth, a young ventriloquist from Kansas, when he was 13 y/o, and now he’s 20 y/o, and I’m working on a documentary about him.
I feel like taking pictures is as much giving as taking. So it should be fair for the people photographed. I always try to find a good balance and a destination for pictures, which could be of interest to the subject. For example, the Javanese drag queens, I organized a portfolio in American Vogue, which they were beyond happy about. Part of the series about the ventriloquist had a full portfolio in Mémoire Universelle (a magazine by Benoît Bèthume). I want to give something in return to the models I photograph.
It’s Alive!
It’s Alive! A travers l’œuvre de Gisèle Vienne - a 192 pp. book, which offers a ten year of collaborative work with a choreographer Gisèle Vienne, on the topic of marionettes. You photographed Gisèle’s backstage, the encounter of the human with the doll. The most striking part is the extent to which the dolls appear real (apart from the eyes with the unchangeable expression, perhaps). What was the most memorable feeling you had during the backstage sessions?
Yes, Gisèle and I met over ten years ago. It was a key encounter as we discovered each other's artistic worlds, which matched in many ways. I started to photograph her pieces and shows regularly; every time it’s a unique and powerful experience. Gisèle is the most hard-working person I’ve ever met. Going to her rehearsals, shows, exhibitions is like entering a family, a constellation of dedicated artists.
How do you see this project evolving?
Gisèle gave me the freedom to photograph her world the way I want, freely, with very privileged access to the pieces, actors, dancers, dolls, etc. I had this feeling of being an acknowledged spy on the stage. She pushes me sometimes to fight a certain shyness. We still keep on collaborating. I took pictures a few weeks ago of an actress who will play in her upcoming piece l’Etang.
We also traveled a lot together, in the USA to a ventriloquist convention, in Austria to Perchten parade. In 2017, Gisèle invited me to join her and a musician Stephen O’Malley on a trip to Indonesia to research puppetry and arts. It was one of the best experiences together.
Which questions do you still have unanswered?
I don’t have specific unanswered questions, I feel our collaboration is endless. I’ll have a solo show at la MEP in September to exhibit part of our collaboration photographs.
‘One of my things, when I shoot fashion, is to ask myself whether I could exhibit some of the images I’m doing. It pushes me to take more powerful imagery.’
Commissioned Work
What are some of the important elements from your personal work you aspire to keep intact while shooting commissioned projects or fashion editorials?
I try not to divide or separate too much fine arts and fashion photography. That’s why the projects I shoot are coherent with my own practice. These days I manage to combine in a very organic way both fine arts and fashion. My aesthetic won’t radically change if I shoot fashion, I won’t pretend I’m someone else, I’ll just try to adapt a bit more to the purpose of the work.
One of my things, when I shoot fashion, is to ask myself whether I could exhibit some of the images I’m doing. It pushes me to take more powerful imagery. It’s not always possible, though! As a fashion and art photographer, I love to show some passionate people, who look like they have a specific character, and people feel they discover someone in a story.
How do you choose your characters, models for the shoots?
I remember doing a series of photographs around the model Dilone's family in Long Island years ago with a stylist Anna Schiffel. I was looking for a model to photograph with many siblings and family members. Dilone had a real tribe of sisters and brothers. This shoot was epic and stayed in my mind, it showed how unique models are, how 'one of a kind' they are in the world, and among their family too. It’s also a way to say models are special people, exceptional people, who stand out from the crowd; they are not the 'norm' of the body type you’re fed over and over with. We also put designers' clothes on Dilone's family, for every single member to make a statement about blending the lines. Fashion should be more democratic.
‘There’s a little absurdity to always go so far and take pictures of 'exotic' places. In the end, I think I can speak about interesting people here in France, and it will have more meaning than looking for escapism in the rest of the world.’
Upcoming Projects
What are your plans for this year?
I feel like I’m gathering pieces of my own puzzle this year. I’ve turned into a 40 y/o adult this summer, and it feels good. I see my work from a better perspective, and I enjoy where I am and what I do - better. And especially I clearly see what is most important to me. I also became more proactive, so I shot the projects I had in mind for so long.
What are you working on right now?
I’m working on many different things. The COVID crisis hit hard, though. I was about to start filming a documentary in March in the US when all was shut down, which was a disappointment. It gave me time to think. I want to work more locally nowadays. I feel it’s important to talk about my closer environment, there’s a little absurdity to always go so far and take pictures of 'exotic' places. In the end, I think I can speak about interesting people here in France, and it will have more meaning than looking for escapism in the rest of the world. Also, I feel like there’s an ethical aspect to it too. It’s more challenging and I'm in a phase with my will to calm down the trips and plane travels. It won’t happen in a day, but I’m working on it.
